Posts by Juan Viejo2

31

"Trust the Faithful and Discreet Slave" Transcript [2010/2011 Kingdom Ministry School]

by pirata in

transcript for the talk "trust the faithful and discreet slave" talk given at the kingdom ministry schools:.

trust the faithful and discreet slave.

have we ever had to meet up with somebody with whom we've not seen before?

Juan Viejo2

Thank you Pirata and Quendi for your excellent posts on this subject.

JV

87

Is everyone on here disassociated??

by happi2b in

jw
friends

so i don't understand it seems to me from the posts that i have read just about everyone is disassociated.. just wondering if that's true or if i am not the only one on here still within the organization..

Juan Viejo2

Happy,

When this thread runs its course within the next few days, print it out or save the link, and hide it somewhere safe. Then do whatever you plan to do or go where your conscience leads you. But if you become a full-time baptized JW, I guarantee that some day you will be very sorry you made that choice.

But if that is your choice, then in five years pull this thread out of your "hidy-hole" and read it again. See how you feel about your choice then. See who was telling the truth. See if you still enjoy going to meetings, especially Watchtower studies. See how door-to-door service actually works out and how much you enjoy it. Think back at how much time you spent actually talking to people at their doors, as opposed to just driving around, stopping for coffee, waiting in the car while one of your carpool mates goes on a "go-back" or return visit. See how many people will want to study the Watchtower books with you, and how long those that agree to do so will agree to continue to study with you. (Average number of weekly studies before they stop inviting you over? 3 or 4 times is typical.)

Yes, read this thread. One thing I can be absolutely sure of is that you will someday regret your choice to become a baptized JW. You may not say that to your family or JW friends because you will be afraid to that, or even admit it to us - but in your heart you will saying to yourself, "Those posters on JWN warned me. What the hell was I thinking?"

Live a life of love and freedom. Don't become a slave to the Watchtower Publishing Corporation.

JV

90

Best way to step down from being a servant

by RayPublisher in

hey i'm wondering if anyone can give some good advice on how to step down in the safest way.. i have served as an ms for a number of years, but can't do it anymore.

i know too much i want to fade in the future when i get some family things straightened out.

i can't move right now so that's out unfortunately.. what should i tell the body?

Juan Viejo2

Tell them you are trading in your 4-door sedan for a 2-door convertible.

Tell them you've become a football/NASCAR/baseball/soccer/golf addict and all of the best shows are on Sundays, all day. Your only hope is to go to an expensive psychiatrist - but you have no money because you also have a gambling addiction.

Tell them you have to go back to school (junior college or trade school, of course) to learn computer technology, Internet and website design. You have to go to class on Ministry School meeting nights and study and work on your computer on the weekends.

Tell them that you have piles (hemmorhoids) and can't sit through meetings any more because they've (both the piles and the meetings) become a "pain in the ass."

Tell them you can't go door to door because you have gout and Morton's neuroma (a very painful nerve mass in the foot), so the only "witnessing" you can do is on Facebook, Topix, and Yahoo!Answers.

Tell them you've recently realized that you've become one of the "anointed." Jehovah's "holy spirit" speaks to you directly since you've become a member of the "faithful and discreet slave" class. (Wait for their answer on this one: Will it be "only the Governing Body members are the FDS"?)

Grow a mustache or beard. Wear a pony-tail.

Start wearing plaid shirts with striped ties to meetings.

Wear mismatched suit pants and jackets with white socks and running shoes (the Morton's neuroma thingy acting up).

Come in five minutes late to every meeting, and then get up and leave five minutes early.

Hope one of my suggestions helps...

JV

43

Menlo Park Kingdom Hall 3

by Juan Viejo2 in

for those of you that have been following the ongoing story of the forced take over of the menlo park, california kingdom hall, please go to:.

http://ex-jw.com/fear-and-loathing-in-menlo-park.

i'm sorry, the article is still a little rough and still needs a lot of editing, but i wanted to get it up by today at the latest.

Juan Viejo2

Mrs. Jones,

You are right, of course. Yes, there are a couple of places where East Palo Alto is on the west side of the freeway, including the old notorious "Whiskey Gulch" area that is now filled with an office park. Thank you for making that clarification. My point was that the east side of the Bayshore might as well be in a different universe from the west side cities of Menlo Park, Redwood City, Palo Alto, and even the western sections of East Palo Alto.

When I was down there in November and drove through the entire south bay area, I had no preconceived notions about any of the neighborhoods I went to. But my own sense of well-being changed as I drove eastward across that wide bridge that crosses the Bayshore Freeway. As I entered the residential neighborhood where one of the plaintiffs lived, although it is relatively well kept, I could tell the local residents (mostly high school kids) were suspicious of my being there, and watched me closely as I drove around looking for addresses. I had one young man on a bicycle follow me almost the entire time.

It may have been my age or my complexion, or it may have simply been my Oregon license plates. But I could tell that I was being watched closely. My sensitivity and caution probably has more to do with my own failings and inborn insecurities dating back to my days as a telephone repairman in Los Angeles. I spent several years working in the Crenshaw-Leimert Park and Watts areas of LA back in the early 1970s. I frequently found myself being closely watched by Crips, Bloods, and overtly militant Nation of Islam neighborhood monitors.

When I returned to the west side, and drove around the Menlo Park area near the Kingdom Hall, the only thing I felt I had to watch out for was the kids getting out of school - and all of the speed bumps that kept my old Camry's shocks working overtime.

JV

43

Menlo Park Kingdom Hall 3

by Juan Viejo2 in

for those of you that have been following the ongoing story of the forced take over of the menlo park, california kingdom hall, please go to:.

http://ex-jw.com/fear-and-loathing-in-menlo-park.

i'm sorry, the article is still a little rough and still needs a lot of editing, but i wanted to get it up by today at the latest.

Juan Viejo2

By the way, one of my contacts close to the Menlo Park situation mentioned in passing that the original mortgage was privately financed (probably by a fellow JW) and it was finally paid in full in mid-2009, just before the move by the Circuit Overseer and the elders in Redwood City begain to make their move against the Menlo Park elders.

BTW - Randy Watter's recent article and posting has a couple of paragraphs that describe the background to very situation very clearly. If you missed it, go back and read his posting or the article located at his website http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/ethics/the-ever-changing-watch-tower-doctrines-betray-its-corruption.html . Good work, Randy!

The problem is that so many of the current Witnesses came in after 1980 and probably assumed that the Kingdom Halls they went to were financed and owned by the Watchtower Society. And that's exactly what the WTBS wants them to think - makes it easier for them to do a land and building grab. The courts have their hands tied, because churches can pretty much do whatever they want without being held to the same level of ethics that the rest of us have to observe.

JV

43

Menlo Park Kingdom Hall 3

by Juan Viejo2 in

for those of you that have been following the ongoing story of the forced take over of the menlo park, california kingdom hall, please go to:.

http://ex-jw.com/fear-and-loathing-in-menlo-park.

i'm sorry, the article is still a little rough and still needs a lot of editing, but i wanted to get it up by today at the latest.

Juan Viejo2

Rebel8 - RE: Gerrymandering.

That was my use of the term. Yes, it is a political term and dates back to the 1800s. It was used by "carpetbaggers" after the Civil War to create unbeatable voting districts.

California and Texas were famous during the '60s and '70s for creating voting districts that had no relationship to reality and only provided safe havens for incumbents. Districts that were one mile wide and 100 miles long, stuff like that.

My point in the article was that it is obvious that Menlo Park was located so that all of the black Witnesses would be locked into one corner of the region, thereby keeping the upper-scale areas of Redwood City and Palo Alto "lily white." Yes, this is a tactic used by churches, but if the Watchtower is supposed to lead the brothers and sisters without regard to their color or ethnicity, it is clear that the WTBS is not as "color-blind" as it appears to be.

I'm sure that we will get many comments on this particular issue - maybe even heated ones.

In the article, I mentioned that as a teenager I saw this very thing happen in my area of Riverside, CA in the late 1950s and 60s - the same time frame as Menlo Park. I went to the Riverside Central Kingdom Hall at 5th and Park, an old Pentecostal church that had been bought and paid for. Like Menlo Park, the WT didn't give us a dime and we paid the mortgage and every bill entirely from local funds. It was on the east side of the railroad tracks, in an old neighborhood just blocks from warehouses and fruit packing plants. Although my family was white, we lived right next to the black, Mexican and Asian neighborhoods of Riverside.

Two new construction Kingdom Halls were built within a few miles of each other in the south Riverside communities of Magnolia Center and Arlington. The dividing lines were set far enough away from their locations so that there would be no chance of any minorities going to those Halls. I remember visiting those halls in those days and realizing that everyone was white, while my KH was about 50/50. Of course, within a few years, the minorities busted out of that old ghetto and moved all over the city -so the issue became moot.

Los Angeles was a classic situation, very much like the Menlo Park situation. Kingdom Halls would be within a few blocks of each other, but one would be primarily white and the other mostly black. They even set up early "assembly halls" that followed the same pattern.

JV

43

Menlo Park Kingdom Hall 3

by Juan Viejo2 in

for those of you that have been following the ongoing story of the forced take over of the menlo park, california kingdom hall, please go to:.

http://ex-jw.com/fear-and-loathing-in-menlo-park.

i'm sorry, the article is still a little rough and still needs a lot of editing, but i wanted to get it up by today at the latest.

Juan Viejo2

Stuck - There is a newspaper reporter working on this story. We share leads. They won't talk to me because I'm an exxie apostate. They don't want to talk to her because they're afraid that if it looks like they made the internal fight public, they would get punished for that. Of course they filed a law suit in Federal District Court (all filings are public domain), so I don't know why talking to a legitimate reporter would make anything worse. So yes, there may be a newspaper article coming out sometime soon.

Moshe - I took that photo and others. Actually the signs are quite substantial and look like they are fairly new. They are just very thin. Look at the larger carved sign - someone put some righteous work into those. No, the building is well taken care of and looks nice. You can see why the existing congregation and elder body did not want to spend a lot of money on upgrades and refurbish. I haven't been inside, but my contacts tell me that it is in decent condition. The biggest problem with the location is that the street is just two lanes with a blind curve (enlarge the map and you'll see what I mean. I have no idea where everyone parks, especially in the evenings when all the neighbors are home. There's room for maybe six cars in the lot in back and maybe a dozen cars parked along the street on either side. This is definitely not a location where you want a combined congregation of 125-200 members.

Rebel8 - They did go to the police. They went to the DA. Neither wanted to get involved and basically told the local JWs that it was a civil case and involved religious issues. They suggested that they file a civil law suit. And that's what they did and that seems to be their only option. Realistically their chances are slim because they do not have any real legal representation, just the advisor. So they are outmanned and outgunned - and the court will most likely rule that church ownership disagreements are church matters. They'd have a better chance of winning if they actually sued for damages, but these elders do not want to "hurt the Watchtower Society in any way." They can't seem to get it in their heads that the Watchtower wants to squash them like irritating little gnats and be done with them.

JV

12

WT's idea of Disaster Relief

by Juan Viejo2 in

http://www.jw-media.org/jpn/20110316.htm.

"in cooperation with local authorities and other relief agencies, the witnesses arranged to help meet the immediate needs of their fellow worshippers and other victims in japan, establishing three teams to help organize disaster relief.

these teams are working diligently to contact congregations of jehovahs witnesses in the devastated areas and care for the spiritual, physical, and material needs of their fellow believers.

Juan Viejo2

http://www.jw-media.org/jpn/20110316.htm

"In cooperation with local authorities and other relief agencies, the Witnesses arranged to help meet the immediate needs of their fellow worshippers and other victims in Japan, establishing three teams to help organize disaster relief. These teams are working diligently to contact congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the devastated areas and care for the spiritual, physical, and material needs of their fellow believers. The Witnesses’ international relief efforts are being coordinated from their world headquarters in Brooklyn. The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is caring for these expenses by utilizing funds donated to the Witnesses’ worldwide work."

Like Haiti, it's not relief for the VICTIMS of the disaster. It's for "fellow worshippers" and "fellow believers."

Very telling news release...

JV

43

Menlo Park Kingdom Hall 3

by Juan Viejo2 in

for those of you that have been following the ongoing story of the forced take over of the menlo park, california kingdom hall, please go to:.

http://ex-jw.com/fear-and-loathing-in-menlo-park.

i'm sorry, the article is still a little rough and still needs a lot of editing, but i wanted to get it up by today at the latest.

Juan Viejo2

For those of you that have been following the ongoing story of the forced take over of the Menlo Park, California Kingdom Hall, please go to:

http://ex-jw.com/fear-and-loathing-in-menlo-park

I'm sorry, the article is still a little rough and still needs a lot of editing, but I wanted to get it up by today at the latest. The two plaintiffs in this case are supposed to have met with the defendants and their attorney today in a court ordered arbitration and deposition meeting.

If you manage to read through all of the very long article, you will see that all of the following come to play in this story:

An historical pattern of racism in both large cities and smaller communities by Watchtower leaders.

Nepotism and favoritism for some, strict and unbending adherence to the rules for others.

Clear evidence of gerrymandering in the location of Kingdom Halls and the assignment of servants/elders.

There is so much going on with this case that sometimes it is hard to get my hands around everything. About the time I think I've got a clear vision of the story, I get a phone call or email that tosses a new wrench into the mix.

As soon as I get some feedback on any arbitration results, I'll post an update.

One thing that came out of this investigation was that the existing membership of the Menlo Park Kingdom Hall (prior to the merger with Redwood City) was divided on the administration of the long-time elders. Some felt they were loving, selfless and devoted servants to the congregation. A minority felt that the elders had become entrenched and often arbitrary. I heard an unconfirmed rumor that a Spanish language congregation moved out of that Kingdom Hall and shared space with another Spanish language Hall in Redwood City. They felt they were treated unfairly and did not like the leadership of Menlo Park.

Front of Menlo Park Kingdom Hall showing combined signage

There is a Japanese congregation that meets there too, but they seem to be keeping a VERY low profile.

I also received information from two unrelated sources that there had been "bad blood" between the leadership of Redwood City and Menlo Park that went back for many years. You'll see a comment in the article where I was told that Redwood City had been trying to take over that hall for years.

I'll let you know as soon as I get more info. Feel free to post your comments here or over there, or both. You'll see that I also have received support from JWs and ex-JWs in Spain that might be quite wide-spread.

JV

123

Translating the NWT in the Shadows

by JuanMiguel in

note: the following is not meant to be construed as a recommendation but to demonstrate the sharp contrast between any authentic bible translation and the new world translation.

for those of us who participate and or read the threads on this board, i understand and appreciate that all here have different views on religion, the existence of god, and of the catholic church.

i believe each individuals convictions should be treated with the utmost respect and dignity.

Juan Viejo2

Juan Miguel - you wrote: " Hola, JuanViejo. Soy Juan Joven! LOL

Great info, from Juan to another (we could have a show together called 'Juan on Juan with Juan Viejo and Juan Miguel.' "

I love it. Very creative play on words. Unfortunately, I am just a plain vanilla, white-bread gringo with two years of high school Spanish. So our discussion would have to be in basic West Coast USA English for me to understand anything you said.

"Juan Joven" - I love it!

I am Juan Viejo because I am literally "Old John." My avatar is that of Alphonso Bedoya, perhaps the most famous of all Mexican bandidos in movie history. While he came off as a simple-minded fellow in his movie rolls, he was well-liked and admired among his actor friends. They all said that he could be very intimidating one minute and soft as jello the next. Everyone said he had a great heart and was a loyal friend. That's why I chose him to represent me.

Of course, I am also known as "ExJWdotCommie" on some other forums. But that is an entirely different story.

I think your presentation of this subject is one of the best ever in connection with Bible translation and the backroom politics connected with the process. The Watchtower is not well-known publicly for its politicking behind closed doors, but those who have been close to Bethel are well aware that it is present and has a long history among the leadership of the Society. It's not about holy spirit guiding them; it's all about who can benefit their own career in the Society.

JV

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